All the Lonely People: Breaking the Walls of Loneliness

Participants:

Video transcript:

Welcome to Emerest Connect, everybody! My name is Maria Alejandra Hernandez, and I am your host. I’m joined by the founder and CEO of Emerest, Josh Klein. How are you, Josh?

Interviewer

Amazing!

Josh Klein

I’m so happy that you’re here with us today! Thank you for joining us. Today, we’re talking about All the Lonely People, a film created, written, directed, and produced by Joe Applebaum and Stu Maddux. Joe has over 20 years of experience in the national entertainment industry and is a broadcast producer and documentary filmmaker. Stu, a director of non-fiction media, is an award-winning producer with international credits as well, including seven regional Emmy Awards under his belt as well as awards from film festivals. This duo is a force to be reckoned with. Joe, thank you so much for being with us.

Interviewer

Thanks a lot!

Joe Applebaum

That’s not all, because we’re also joined by Greg Olsen, Commissioner for the New York State Office for the Aging, and Becky Preve, the Executive Director at the Office for the Aging. Thank you so much for being here, guys.

Interviewer

Thanks for having us.

Greg Olsen

Becky was appointed as Executive Director in January 2020 and, since then, has been providing leadership and helping to promote independence within the aging population. Commissioner Greg Olsen oversees the agency’s day-to-day operations. Both Becky and Greg have been instrumental in the state’s progress with aging adults and have made it their mission to continue to support our aging community with suitable services and resources. Thank you again, and I welcome you both.

Loneliness has been classified as an epidemic – an epidemic that the nation as a whole is trying to combat one step at a time. This film depicts the ups and downs of loneliness and allows one to truly grasp the gravity of being alone. Now, we’re going to start with some questions. Joe, what made you want to make a film about loneliness?

Interviewer

Well, it didn’t just come to me in the middle of the night as a sudden urge to make a film about loneliness. My partner, Stu, and I were looking for our next project at the end of 2018. We usually make films for the aging community, so we put out a survey asking our audience what they thought the next big issue for a film should be. By a two-to-one margin, the response was loneliness and isolation. We were surprised because, at that time, loneliness and isolation were not on the radar the way they are now. However, we pushed forward, started our research, and realized how crucial this subject was. Not only was it a mental health issue, but it could also be a physical health issue. We began shooting the film before the pandemic. Most of the film was completed before the airports closed in March 2020, but we finished it during the pandemic, wanting to capture how loneliness and isolation were being affected by the pandemic.

Joe Applebaum

Thank you so much. I actually loved the part where people were talking on the phone. I’m guessing those shots were from when the pandemic was happening. You had some shots when they were talking on the phone.

Interviewer

Yeah, we did. We got a little bit of everybody during the pandemic.

Joe Applebaum

Well, beautiful. Thank you. Now, this question can really go to anyone here, and maybe a few of you can answer it. But in your opinion, why has loneliness become an epidemic? Who would like to go first?

Interviewer

You want me to start?

Greg Olsen

Aboslutely.

Becky Preve

I think I talked a lot last time we were here. It’s really a public health problem, and people don’t really self-identify as being lonely and isolated. In the past, loneliness was thought of as an individualized problem, but we’re very social creatures. If you have social connections and interactions with others, you thrive; when you don’t, you fail. The biggest data point is right around when Joe and Stu were considering doing this film. CMS, the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, released a report with AARP showing the devastating impact on older adults who are lonely and isolated. It’s equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, leading to an increase in depression, anxiety, and sleep disruption patterns, costing over 7 billion dollars to treat. Other countries have been ahead of us. The film shows that the United Kingdom was the first country to have a Minister of Loneliness. Japan followed, and now New York State has an Ambassador of Loneliness, Dr. Ruth. People are really recognizing, especially because of the pandemic, that this is a public health problem. It’s something we’ve known for decades and something our network has been trying to address for over 50 years.

Greg Olsen

And I think also part of that is we have no problem talking about actual health conditions. If you have hypertension or diabetes, there’s not really a stigma in talking about that. But what we have seen, not only in the older population but really in all populations, is that people feel there’s a stigma in saying, “I feel socially isolated.” When you look at the infrastructure, if you don’t have access to transportation, the internet, or other ways to connect with other human beings, and your family doesn’t live nearby, you’re automatically being socially isolated. Films like what Joe and Stu have created really are a way for us to talk about the issue, identify it, and find possible solutions on how to deal with it.

Becky Preve

Beautiful!

Interviewer

I would just want to add to that. Loneliness and isolation have always been with us. I mean, it’s not like in 2018 we realized as a human society that, “Oh wow, we get lonely and isolated.” I mean, it’s always been there. But it’s sort of gone—Greg, I think you would agree with me—it’s gone on steroids. It really just has. We have these wonderful devices—I’m prone to bringing it out during interviews like this—and in so many ways, this has brought us together, right? But in many other ways, it’s making us lonely and isolated too. So it’s a double-edged sword.

Joe Applebaum

That’s particularly true for children, right? So, we’re using the irony, and I think what we’re trying to do collectively in New York State—same with Josh and everything that you guys do—is we’re bringing technology to older adults to enhance their lives and to make those connections. Children are using the same technology, and they’re doing exactly the opposite. It’s really being harmful, and they become socially isolated, lonely, with self-esteem issues. So, it’s really fascinating that two different sets of the age cohort can have such different responses to the same type of technology.

Greg Olsen

Well, the elderly population also has a limited amount of how much we want them to be on technology. So, I don’t think it’s that much of a difference. With children, we don’t want the elderly to also, we want them to move around if they possibly can, but it’s using the technology as a tool to a certain extent. I think older adults are more mature and realize that they shouldn’t be sitting there all day, watching and socially engaging, and wanting the likes. They might not have that piece of how many likes they get on a post. So, I think we can really delve into trying to get the technology in our favor for this specific population. It can be advantageous to us as long as we’re not content with that being it.

Josh Klein

The thing is, it’s very complicated. When we set out to make this film, I’m a big, I wouldn’t say opponent, but I’m sort of anti-technology to a certain extent, especially social media because I think there are a lot of problems with what it’s done to our society personally. However, we were going to show a whole segment in the film on how overuse of these devices has been a bad thing. It has not helped us; it has driven people away. People are buried in their phones rather than having conversations. In fact, there are studies that have shown that younger people are actually losing the ability to communicate because you don’t need social cues to send a text. You lose the ability to have a conversation, right? We were going to have this whole segment in the film, and then the pandemic happened. All of a sudden, technology became our savior, and Zoom became a verb. That was actually, to a certain extent, holding us together because, while it wasn’t ideal, at least people could communicate over FaceTime, Zoom, and other platforms. So, it’s complicated, isn’t it?

Joe Applebaum

I think, to your point about emotions, which is a very good point, children today don’t even know how to express themselves. If they’re upset, they might use a picture of an eggplant or any type of face emoji when they should be saying certain things. Kids are not even developing the ability to effectively communicate as they get older. To develop as a child, you have to be able to emotionally express yourself. Today, it’s just one little emoji, and they’re not even sure what that means. The people on the other side have to figure out what that emoji or one word even means. So, to your point, you’re 100% correct.

Josh Klein

I got to tell you, I am so grateful. Without disclosing my age, I am grateful that I grew up before the age of all this.

Joe Applebaum

You had time to develop properly and experience social interactions and interventions before all this. It’s going to be interesting to see how the youngsters come out of it, is all I’m going to say.

Josh Klein

There was a portion that really struck me because it’s so true. When that gentleman, Ari—if you could remind me of his full name—was on social media, I’ve heard so many people, including friends, express similar feelings. They say, “I feel like I’m part of something, but not really,” and end up feeling even more lonely. It’s a double-edged sword. It’s something you’re addressing, and it is creating more of that feeling of loneliness, which can lead to depression and other serious issues. So, how can we put a stop to this? I know you’re already working on it. People like you, Josh, thank you for creating Emerest, which provides an outlet for those who might otherwise feel alone. And thank you for this powerful film. Now, I have more questions. Becky, as the Executive Director of the Office for the Aging, how have you seen loneliness affect New Yorkers, and what has your office done to help reverse it?

Interviewer

So, the Association on Aging represents the 59 Offices for the Aging throughout the state. What we have seen, and to Joe’s point, is that social isolation didn’t suddenly develop when the COVID-19 pandemic hit. I think it was an opportunity to shine a light on something that we have known about in aging services and have been combating for decades because we know it is such a significant problem. Working with our partners at the New York State Office for the Aging, we have implemented well over 20 different technological interventions and boots-on-the-ground physical interactions to combat social isolation and loneliness. You can see this in every corner of New York State, whether it’s an individual receiving home-delivered meals who gets a visit every day from a volunteer, or through friendly visiting programs. I’ll let Greg talk about the tech programs that the state has funded, but we have been laser-focused on social isolation as part of our comprehensive assessment for older individuals. To gain services through our network, you need to be over the age of 60. We conduct a full comprehensive service assessment, not just looking at chronic conditions or whether you need help cooking a meal, but also evaluating if you are socially isolated, depressed, or able to use technology. If you can use technology, we assess how to pair it safely, which this conversation touches on, especially regarding the lack of guardrails on tech platforms used by older people. What Josh and the team here do, and what we have done through the State Offices for the Aging, is ensure that there are safeguarded interventions for older individuals. I’ll let Greg discuss some of the really exciting, outside-the-box interventions that you might not always associate with older adults. From an aging lens, there are some truly innovative and practical examples of how we’ve been able to use low-cost, high-yield interventions to make sure people don’t feel as isolated and lonely.

Becky Preve

Beautiful! I can’t wait to hear all about it. Please let us know.

Interviewer

I think Becky’s right. Our network is really focused on keeping people in their homes and communities as much as possible. We try to get people out to libraries, senior centers, meal programs, and other community activities. When that’s not possible, as Becky mentioned, we have programs like telephone reassurance calls and friendly visitor programs. Before the pandemic, in response to data from 2018, we started a project with animatronic pets—dogs and cats, and even a “walker squawker,” which attaches to a walker to prevent falls by ensuring the walker is used. We’ve distributed over 28,500 of these pets and have seen an 80% reduction in loneliness, isolation, depression, and even pain. Engagement with these pets tends to increase over time; they’re not just used for a week and then put away. Additionally, we have a partnership with GetSetUp, which connects people to lifelong learning, health, and wellness classes, and a project with Intuition Robotics, which features the first AI designed for social good in New York State. This proactive AI companion helps combat isolation. As Becky mentioned, we have about 16 other projects. After the film, it’s clear that there isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution. There are in-person and technological approaches. Most older adults use technology similarly to us and can learn to use it. Our role is to evaluate these solutions, implement them in the community, measure their effectiveness, and let individuals choose what works best for them.

Greg Olsen

I love that! Oh my goodness, I love that.

Interviewer

I think the other piece of that too is that we’re focusing a lot on people who may have homebound issues. To the point of Joe’s film, you can be socially isolated and still be in the community. Our entire network has volunteer opportunities for people of all ages, and a way to combat your own social isolation is to get out into your community and help others. Many people don’t realize that volunteering can be a way to address their own social isolation and loneliness. As I mentioned in our conversation downstairs, we serve people from the age of 60 to 110. There is no one-size-fits-all solution for all of these individuals to combat social isolation and loneliness. The takeaway, at least in the state of New York, is to reach out to your local Office for the Aging to see what opportunities exist. As Greg said, there are numerous opportunities for older people in New York State.

Becky Preve

I’m really glad you raised that because one out of every seven jobs in New York State is in the not-for-profit sector. We have a million volunteers over the age of 55 contributing half a billion hours of service, with an economic value of $13.8 billion a year.
What that means for us is that transportation, meal preparation, meal delivery, YMCA programs, veterans’ programs, and tax preparation services all rely on volunteers. Thousands of organizations depend on them. You are spot on: volunteering not only helps combat isolation but also keeps your strength up and involves cognitive interaction with people. The benefits extend not only to the older adults or anyone who volunteers but also to the community at large.

Greg Olsen

I love that. This reminds me of an important point in your film about acts of kindness. It was so beautiful to see how that one lady, just sitting down and having a conversation, had her life changed because she couldn’t drive. It was truly touching. Acts of kindness, like the ones shown in the film, can have a profound impact. We often don’t know the struggles others are going through, so simply being kind can make a big difference. Everything you are doing is beautiful, and I want to thank you for that. Josh, Emerest is determined to alleviate the stress of loneliness for its clients. How would you describe Emerest’s efforts in this matter?

Interviewer

We try to figure out every day and learn from the people we’re trying to help. Seeing the people on the screen and learning about their different problems and complexities is crucial. Greg, you mentioned connectivity and access problems with technology, and that’s what we’re here for. In my mind, everything we’ve built is not in the beginning stages but is a constantly evolving effort. We are always learning and understanding who is on the other side of the screen, what is prohibiting their growth, and how we can keep them happier. For those who are bedridden, we need to understand that population and any issues they might face, including family problems. What we want to achieve over the next year is not just to rest on our laurels but to continue improving. Even if we manage to reduce loneliness to some extent, that’s not enough. We need to delve into the details and ensure that we are not just providing home-based services but finding ways to help people get out of the house. Sometimes we get so entangled in the process of home care that we lose sight of other possibilities. We need to consider how we would want to be treated at that age—would we want to stay constantly on a screen? People need community and connections. If someone doesn’t have a community, we should help them set up friendships and find social opportunities outside their home. It’s not just about staying home and seeing the same walls every day. We should think about how to help them get out—whether it’s going on a bus trip or participating in activities like a men’s shed. Understanding various dynamics, including economic factors and individual needs, is crucial. We are committed to advancing this effort and not being complacent with what we’ve achieved. We need to explore new ways to get people out of the house and involved in their communities. There’s no one-size-fits-all solution. Some people might benefit from small bots, others from interactive games, and some from larger social activities. Films like this are impactful, and I hope you understand the significant difference they make. Even though you might be leaving the studio now, rest assured that good things will come from this effort.

Josh Klein

Well, then we have done our job.

Joe Applebaum

Joe, based on the movie, what were some of the main reasons individuals were classified as lonely?

Interviewer

I think each person had their own individual circumstances. For example, transportation issues were a big part. I’ll give you two examples.
First, there was Mary Hill, who was 90 years old and lived in the English countryside with her husband. Her husband, for whatever reason, didn’t allow her to drive. Although this was a debatable issue, the point is that her only contact was one day a week by that bus, and during COVID, that was even suspended.
On the other hand, Victor, with the men’s shed, once pulled me aside and said, “You know, it’s not that I don’t have friends. I could go see some people if I had a motorcycle, but I can’t even afford to put gas in the tank to drive to them.” He also lived in a place where he couldn’t easily access public transportation, so transportation was definitely a big part of it.
Then there’s Carol Hill, the woman who is bedridden. On paper, Carol is 80 years old, in low-income housing, and without means. She lived alone and had no family. By all definitions, she should be lonely and isolated, but she wasn’t. Her situation was different because of her outlook and the way she perceived things. She took care of herself and maintained a positive attitude.
That’s the lesson for all of us: even if you are lonely or isolated, it doesn’t mean there isn’t anything you can do about it. Each person’s situation was unique, and we tried to highlight that in the film. You can’t paint a broad brush with these issues.

Joe Applebaum

Now that you mentioned Carol, there’s something she said that really stuck with me. She mentioned that “faith can cure loneliness,” or something like that. It made me realize that it was her state of mind. Her outlook on life was truly inspiring. Even though she was bedridden and could only talk to people through a window, her mindset was remarkably positive. I was truly mind-blown by that.

Interviewer

People would come in to see her, but here’s another thing: on the surface, you would think this woman is lonely. Yet, she confided in me once that sometimes she had so many people coming in to check up on her and visit that she needed them to go away because she wanted some privacy. She actually said that. But she created that space for herself.
Absolutely, she did. Now, in Carol Hill’s situation, we asked her what carried her through, and it was her faith. That’s not necessarily the solution for everyone, but it worked for her.

Joe Applebaum

Of course, what I got from her, the big lesson for me – everything was a lesson but her state of mind. Her positivity, even though she was in bed, was remarkable. She lived like a healthy woman; she was laughing and full of life.

Interviewer

She was sorting everything out, even opening the blinds. She just made things work. Like you said, it’s a state of mind, making things work, which I found to be the best lesson possible.

Josh Klein

Can we be up to something right there, like changing everybody’s state of mind? It could be the beginning of addressing this loneliness epidemic that we all want to tackle.

This question is for everyone: If you could give us some thoughts on how you view loneliness in five years from now, or even five months from now, what would suffice in terms of reversing this epidemic?

Interviewer

I think five months is too short for significant change. In five years, the key issue will be education—education—education. That’s what this film addresses. We know from the data that loneliness doesn’t just affect older adults; it impacts the entire population. There must be serious regulations on social media, particularly for children.
The advances in positive technology that we’ve seen over the last two years will be extraordinarily helpful. As New York State and its communities continue to move towards age-friendly environments, it’s about rebuilding the social fabric. It’s similar to how communities were organized around World War II, where people knew their neighbors and looked out for one another.
I’m hopeful that as communities organize themselves in this way, it will create a positive ripple effect in addressing loneliness.

Greg Olsen

I see that. Does anyone else would like to answer that question?

Interviewer

I’ll add to that. I think Greg is right, but I also believe that we’re on the road to more recognition and acceptance of loneliness. People are starting to recognize it in themselves and acknowledge that it is something real. Once they accept it, the next step is acting on it.

Joe Applebaum

So, to that point, Joe, I think addressing those three aspects—identification, anti-stigma, and actionable items—is crucial for making real progress. To Greg’s point, five months might be too short a time frame. Regarding the five-year outlook, if you had told me five years ago that we would be using artificial intelligence devices in the homes of older people, forming friendships with them, I would have said that wasn’t possible.
So, five years from now, I am cautiously optimistic. I believe that the wonderful people we’re working with in the tech space will continue to advance their work to combat social isolation and loneliness in innovative ways. We recently attended a tech conference where they actually hologrammed Howie Mandel in, and it felt like he was in the room with us. This demonstrates the immense opportunities within the tech space, provided it is safeguarded, as Greg mentioned.
However, from a humanistic standpoint, we need to do much more to educate people—not only about social isolation and loneliness but also about the visibility of older people and those with disabilities. They cannot be ignored, as it affects all of us. This is my vision for the next five years: if we get it right, we can make a significant difference.

Becky Preve

It’s true; they are there, and we need to pay attention as a whole. Wow, thank you, everyone, for sharing such meaningful insights. And, as always, Josh, thank you for everything: for giving us Emerest Connect and for your kind heart.

Thank you, and thank you to everybody for watching us, too. Remember that with Emerest Connect, you will never be lonely. We’re here for you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Thank you so much, Joe, and thank you both for the amazing work you’re doing. Here at Emerest Connect, our main goal is to ensure that you live the best version of yourself, for you and for everyone who loves you, just like us.

Thank you, everyone, for joining me here today, and to everyone watching, thank you so much. Let’s be kind, take care, and thank you all.

Interviewer